#101 - The Pull & The Pendulum: How We Belong Without Losing Ourselves (Peek Behind the Patreon Paywall)

After seven months away from the main feed, I'm back with an update and a peek behind the Patreon paywall.

Over the course of this podcast, particularly the 'cult'ure series, we developed shorthand for something that's hard to name: "the drift" — the way ordinary cultures, well-intentioned ones, gradually erode personal agency without anyone intending harm. Not bad actors. Just systems that reward compliance and quietly punish deviation.

After years of documenting how the drift happens (in wellness spaces, workplaces, intimate relationships, and political movements) I kept hitting the same wall. Understanding it isn't enough. There has to be an alternative. And it can't just be try harder or find better people.

In this episode, I use a recent social media pile-on as a jumping-off point to unpack why the conversation keeps collapsing into two bad options — hyper-individualism on one end, identity-fusing collectivism on the other — and why neither one actually answers the question.

I'm not ready to share the full direction of the research yet. But I'm getting closer. And I think you're going to recognize what I've been finding when you hear it.

If you want to follow along in real time through the end of the year, join us at patreon.com/thedeeperpulse.

Referenced In This Episode:

• My recent appearance on The Hard Skills Podcast with Dr. Mira Brancu

Transcript

Candice Schutter 0:02

And if you find yourself drifting into a place of, "I just can't get it right in this world," just know that the pressure to get it right is just evidence that the drift is working on you. That the idea that there is a prescriptive way of being individually or collectively is the very mechanism that we must counteract and work together against. Hey, y'all. You might be surprised to see me here on the main feed. It's been over seven months since I've dropped something here. And I know I've been gone, and I've been quiet. But it's been on purpose. In addition to doing everything I can to stay sane in this upside-down world, I'm also finishing up a master's degree at ASU. And the past several months have been a time of integration and deep inquiry for me. I've basically been taking everything that we did together, specifically in the 'cult'ure series and beyond, while also making note of everything that's alive in the cultural zeitgeist and bringing it all into an academic context in order to try and understand it a little bit better. I've really been looking for language and evidentiary support for some of the things that we explored on the podcast. But also, really taking time to let the questions that we were left with on the other side of all the work that we did together germinate for a while. And now, finally, something is starting to take shape. Not a finished or prescriptive answer, but a new direction in terms of understanding. And that's really what this episode is about. What you may not know is that I have been showing up over on Patreon, releasing episodes to a smaller group of people who have been following along with this work behind the scenes, some since the very beginning. And I wanna offer a shout-out to those of you whose support has genuinely made this work possible. For your willingness to support work that so many right now are doing, that is editorially independent and separate from corporate interests and the influence of capitalistic overlords. But regardless, whether you've been observing behind the scenes or you haven't heard from me for a while, what you're about to hear is really me finally picking up where we left off. I wanted to drop this latest Patreon release as an update to all The Deeper Pulse listeners out there. So over the course of this entire podcast, particularly the 'cult'ure series and the episodes that followed, stories were shared, psychosocial patterns were deconstructed, and I uncovered something that I now sometimes refer to as the drift. The way that ordinary cultures, well-intentioned ones, and especially those with a heartfelt mission, can inadvertently and very gradually erode personal agency, all without conscious intention to cause harm. And while I have made it clear over the years, I want to reiterate that when I speak about the drift, I am not referring to bad actors or obvious villains. What we've been diagnosing on this podcast is more about how humans reconstruct systems that employ a slow and incremental pull that rewards compliance and silently punishes deviation. This happens in wellness spaces, workplaces, intimate relationships, and as we know all too well, political movements. And the thing about the drift is that it's subtle. It doesn't announce itself. And that's exactly what makes it so hard to resist. But here I go again, getting pulled into the description of the problem. If you've been here a while, you know that we know what the problem is. We're familiar with that terrain. We know it well. And that's why I stopped dropping content, because I didn't wanna keep circling the wagons around an issue that we have all clearly defined without offering clear direction toward something that's more generative and useful. So I took time. And I sat with the question of how do we create relationships, communities, and social systems that not only acknowledge invisible psychosocial forces, but that proactively counteract unspoken marching orders? Not necessarily through demonstrative acts of defiance, although sometimes very much yes, but mostly through conscientious everyday choices that counteract the drift before it takes hold of us. So that's where I've been. I've been doing my damnedest to figure out how to do it all differently. For now, here's where things stand. Hey, patrons. I'm back with another episode of The Deeper Pulse on Patreon. And today I wanna talk about the question that I can't stop asking, the question that many of you asked on the backside of the 'cult'ure series that is an open question for many of us who remain gathered here I'm finally getting some clarity around where I'm gonna end up going with my capstone for my graduate degree. And those of you who have been here for a while, some of you for a very long time, I really wanna s- thank you for sticking around during this phase of learning and integration. And I feel like I'm finally getting to a place where I'm ready to tackle the big question, and I'll get to the big question in a moment, and why I f- why it's taken so long, basically. But first, you know, I've shared with you before my bittersweet relationship with social media, and in the last few months I've backed away almost entirely. I pop on occasionally, and I'm there for, like, one to two minutes, and I end up leaving shortly thereafter for lots of reasons that we've talked about before on this podcast, and it's been really good for me. And at the same time, I haven't been able to completely quit altogether. I do drop in. And I did so the other day, and I'm, and I'm always seeing things, uh, like patterns that are emerging, even with a quick bit. In a way, I, I almost get a, a better sense of patterns looking at it less, because from that distance I can kind of see, uh, things that I wouldn't see when I was spending so much time, um, not only scrolling, but also posting and engaging in comments. So I've been in this sort of observation mode. And the other day I saw a post that was getting a lot of traction and It wasn't somebody that I follow, of course. That's, like, the new thing, right? They're suggesting based on the algorithm things that it might interest me. So I opened up my Instagram, and somebody was sharing a photo that Glennon Doyle and Abby Wambach, who's a very visible couple. They have a podcast they've done a lot of activist work and, um, philanthropy and things like that. And they do a podcast with Glennon's sister, Amanda Doyle. And because I used to listen to their podcast regularly and because my phone is surveilling me at all times in all arenas and sort of putting the pieces together, it popped up a post. And it was a picture of Glennon and Abby that they had posted on the socials following Taylor Swift's wedding. So if you don't know, Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce got married. And they had a guest list of, like, 1,000 people. And of course, it was a who's who in terms of celebrity world. And apparently Glennon and Abby were invited. They attended. They posted a photo of them all zhuzhed up, and then, like, an after-the-fact post wishing Taylor and Travis years of happiness, all that stuff. And contextually, they have a podcast called the We Can Do Hard Things podcast. It's a podcast that Glennon started, but soon after discovered that having co-hosts, which I can attest to how hard it is to do a podcast on your own, especially without a production team, that it was much more effective and gave listeners much more breadth if she did it in cooperation with others. And so she has been hosting the podcast with her wife, Abby Wambach, and her sister, Amanda Doyle. And Amanda did this episode weeks ago, called Why Are Billionaires? Why Are Billionaires? So the post was really about, how can they release a structural critique of wealth concentration and billionaire class and then also snuggle up and have proximity to Taylor Swift, who happens to be a billionaire. Now, of course, that's a reasonable dialogue to have. Is there a contradiction there? Yes, there is. And yet, the approach was to immediately cast a verdict on these two people and how and if they are virtuous enough to lead any of us. And if you went to the comments, it was just people being like, "I knew all along these people couldn't be trusted. They are terrible. They're the worst of the worst." It was a whole slew of comments saying how wrong they are in every way because of this one choice that they made, which clearly there's a conflict in terms of the message it's sending, right? So I'm bringing it up not because I wanna unpack that at all. I don't. What really struck me is the demand for purity and the way in which the verdict was cast on these individuals. And in many ways, wasn't a critique. It was a condemnation. And there is a difference between the two, for sure. And I've been thinking about it a lot. And I think most of us have experienced both of those and have a basic sense of the difference between the two. I offer this as an illustration of one of the ways in which I think people attempt to answer the question that is really at the heart of the end of the 'cult'ure series, the question that many of you asked me over and over again, and that I have been asking myself and continue to ask myself, that drove me to go get a master's of science degree in organizational leadership and to really dive into all of this so much more. And the question is: How do we do this differently? For years I've spent time documenting wellness spaces, mission-driven organizations, everyday workplaces, intimate relationships, really looking at how personal agency is eroded and how harm happens without anyone having any ill intentions. And that's interesting stuff. And a lot of people asked me after the 'cult'ure series, like, "Aren't you gonna write a book and compile this and share it?" And I sat down to do that. And while it is somewhat interesting, it felt like regurgitating work that I had already done, which has value, obviously. I'm not saying it's not there. We need to understand how it happens to deprogram, to deconstruct our experiences, to reclaim that agency, all of that. So important. I'm not discounting that. And I feel like there's no way to really deliver that message of this is how this happens without understanding and being able to offer an alternative. The alternative isn't just try to avoid those things. It's gotta be clearer than that. And that's the piece that I've really been after. And I'm starting to get closer to what it might look like to answer that kind of a question. There are no simple answers, and I'm not going to pretend that I'm gonna land in a place that's prescriptive. But I do wanna start shifting the conversation here, and maybe eventually onto the main feed. But definitely through my capstone project, which will be sort of the culminating project for my master's degree that I'll be working on in the fall. And hopefully, fingers and toes crossed, be graduating in December. It involves getting approval on the idea that I have to sort of unpack some of this as a part of my project. So I'm hoping that I get that approval in late August. But I'm still sort of formulating what that looks like, and I don't wanna talk about the particulars of it yet, because I find that when I speak about things prematurely, it sort of dilutes the power in the process for me. And it, it sorta dies on the vine. And, and I wanna be really conscientious about that. So I'm not gonna share the particulars yet. But I want you to know it's coming down the road. How do we individually and collectively actively resist the forces that we've talked about on the podcast? How do we proactively, I should say, resist all the forces that we've talked about on the podcast and create social realities that sort of counteract the way that group dynamics function. How do we go in with eyes wide open? So how have I been getting here? Well, obviously a lot of it is the graduate program, which has been interesting because I wasn't really sure about my choice in program. It felt like I should be choosing a sociology program, and I looked into that. But I'm glad that I chose the program that I did because it put me within the institution of the university looking at how institutions structure social dynamics. It's been really interesting. The things that I've been witnessing and learning about in my graduate program have provided theoretical and evidentiary support for things that we've talked about on the podcast, contextualizing them, helping me to understand that there are people who have been looking at some of this stuff. They're just not brought into the forefront of most conversations, because they go against the grain of what makes our societies hum along the way that they do. And so that's been foundational. But the recent sort of breakthrough that I had is because of y'all, is because of the guests who came on the podcast, is me actually learning what the data points are that I need to look for in order to answer the question, how do we do this differently? In order to look at, how is it that we actively resist these social forces? I began looking at podcast transcripts, stories that have been shared with me on and off the record, my own lived experience. Once I knew what to look for, on a granular level, what are the things that make the difference, that counteract these forces? And it's because of the stories that you've shared with me, the messages that you've written to me, and the conversations that we've had, that I have this wealth of information to begin sorting and looking through and doing kind of a qualitative analysis on. Seeing what the patterns are to speak to a way in which we might counteract some of this on a micro level, and then of course, in a larger cultural sense, especially given what we're facing politically right now. And it sounds a little bit grandiose, but that's what my capstone is going to dive into a bit. And that I'm hoping on the other side of it, and potentially as a deliverable for my capstone itself, would be to deliver a series of episodes that actually begin to answer that question. Again, not in a prescriptive way, but in the sense of these are the things we need to be thinking about. That is something that I can begin sharing with you, even if I just do it here on Patreon. I'm not sure what'll come of it, if anything. But I'll continue to share with you as it develops in the next few months. So the pile-on that happens when people like Glennon Doyle or Abby Wambach do a thing, a human thing. Contradicting their values through a certain behavior, a thing that we all do from time to time, maybe not on that scale. The social pile-on comes from this place of this pendulum swinging from two extremes. And what I've found when people attempt to answer the question, how do we do this differently, they sort of swing into one of two camps. The first we've unpacked a shit-ton on the podcast, which is this sort of hyper-individualistic, myopic approach to self-optimization. And navel-gazing is the answer to all of our problems. And if we all just get super regulated and responsible for our vibes and this, that, and the other, that we will have a positively functioning society, and we will not get captured by undue influence and all of that noise. We know that there is, yes, value in all of the above to a certain degree. But the self-help industrial complex is its own machine and system that we get pulled into. And it operates in these little microcosms. And that's what we unpacked for a good long while on the podcast. That hyper-individualistic solution can actually lead us to disconnect from the world around us and can lead to a sort of narcissistic orientation to the world, which causes a lot of problems and exacerbates things like white supremacy and socioeconomic inequality and tribalistic political allegiances, all of that. That focus, that hyper-individualistic focus on self can make it so that we become blind to the diversity of the whole, right? So that's one extreme. The other extreme, which is a place that I really kind of started to swing to when I came out of doing the 'cult'ure series where I thought, "Okay, the answer is this collectivist approach where everyone's on even footing and everyone's a leader. And, and this sort of idealistic utopian approach to social change, which actually really mimicked the way in which we framed things in some of the wellness cultures that I was in, where the mission becomes the center point. And if you happened to see my drop from last month, it's an interview I did on the Hard Skills podcast with Mira Brancu. And I talked about something, calling it "the drift," how mission-driven cultures can sort of lead people to buy into... Their identity becomes fused with the whole. And collectivism actually becomes a group identity. And it creates a high-demand environment just for sake of allegiance and belonging. So it's nice to think collectivism is the answer, but it can create a whole other set of problems. And an example of that is what happens when Glennon and Abby go to a wedding, and people come down on them hard. And again, I- I'm not saying we can't critique people for their behavior. But this idea that they have betrayed the mission. They have betrayed everything that the mission stands for through one action, that it somehow casts their whole entire lived experience and record into doubt, because they did this one thing. Versus, "Hey, let's have a conversation. I'm trying to understand, like, how this fits in based on what you've said before." Like, that's different, right? That's a conversation I would love to have with them. But the piling on that happens, this is not about Glennon and Abby at all. We see it all the time on social media. When we don't conform to the group identity of, "This is what we believe, and this is what we stand for." When we sort of step out of that bound in some way, then it becomes another cage that we're in. So neither one of these individualism and collectivism as a response is a solution to the question of how to do this differently. That is actually just us swinging on a pendulum from side to side. That false binary is part of the problem. And I thought, "Oh, the answer must be to live somewhere in between." But I got the sense and the research showed, that's not actually the right solution either, because this sort of either/or Goldilocks approach to things actually creates its own problems. It dilutes the power of every point on that continuum, which has a purpose and a moment in our lives, right? Which says to us we are a separate individual and we are part of a whole, and we need to be able to ride that continuum with grace and not think that any point on it is the answer to the question that we're asking. And the more I looked at the data points, the more I saw, oh, wait a second. It's not about where we are on the spectrum as much as it is about what is animating our movement as we move along that spectrum. Which is the question that I would pose throughout the series, what is this in service to? Like, wherever we are on that spectrum in a hyper-individualistic, you could call it capitalistic place, or a very communal, empathetic space, what is the stance that we're taking in that moment in service to? And usually the answer is complex. It's not, like, in service to one thing. But really looking at that question is what I'm exploring in the data. Said another way, how do we continually wake up when in the pull of sort of the group consciousness, the influence of an individual, a system, or a society? So this idea of staying in a perfectly poised place of center is unrealistic and dehuman, quite frankly. It's dehumanizing in a superhuman sense. But instead of that, how do we orient ourselves in a way that is true and allowing of change and growth and new awareness while we're in relationship with others and when influences are making a play at us, all of that. That's how the question's evolved for me. And I'm sure will open up even more as I dive into this. But that's the direction things are moving in. Which sort of connects to current events and this moment that we're in. The way in which now the Trump regime is sort of running out of cards to play. So they're pulling from an old playbook, McCarthyism, like just call everybody a communist. That's the worst thing you could be called. And so we'll just say, like what I talked about actually in a recent release, Crickets and Tumbleweeds, where something is labeled as radical just to kind of shut down the conversation before it even starts. And that's what they're doing. From the standpoint of this patriarchal, hyper-individualistic headspace, they are casting collectivism as the enemy and saying, if we don't follow this playbook," they literally have one, Project 2025, this playbook that we have written, that the people who are resisting it is turned into a boogeyman. That rolling out everyday social democracy, which a lot of Nordic nations have and whatnot, that rolling out programs like that, are eventually going to lead to Marxist-Leninist communist dictatorships. It's a conflation of two very different things. But it's a scare tactic that works in a lot of cases, because people don't really know that. So the people who control the narrative are the people who have the most influence. People who are starved for safety, security, belonging, structural answers to very real problems, they listen to people like Trump. And even to Democratic leaders who promise us that we just need to go back to the way things were, business as usual. People fall in line because they don't understand that there is an alternative to this hyper-individualistic response to things and this communal dictatorial response to things. And I don't wanna get in the weeds with all of that. I guess what I'm saying is the real questions are about, how do we belong without losing ourselves, without giving up our sense of authority and truth for the sake of group identity? Or banding against diversity and the fact that we all walk through the world in a unique way and have individual needs, desires, and ways of being. How do we balance that? Showing up for ourselves and each other. So that the question is no longer, do I go it alone or do I dissolve myself into the group? There is another way. And I know it might sound like the domain of personal development, but I think it's actually more about social cohesion. And change, quite frankly. Like creating, and I'm just sort of formulating this, thinking out loud here, but how do we create the right conditions that allow for change individually and internally, and collectively in relationship with other people who also are granted the permission and breadth to decide for themselves. Like, that's the way that I wanna lead. When I would invite somebody to come on the podcast, and we would decide together this was a thing that we wanna do, this is a conversation we wanna have. We're gonna come together, process something that's really triggering, and we're gonna co-regulate. So we're not doing it on our own. We're, like, walking through that fire together. And we would walk through that fire, and we would have that experience. And the permission was granted prior to recording to press record, to have that red light on. And then I always circled back every single time. I would edit down a recording, and then I would send it to the individual. And the message was always, "Please, if you have the time, listen to this. Hear yourself tell the story, and experience the benefit of that." Because I knew firsthand how beneficial that is as somebody who creates content and shares personal stories. Like, hearing your own voice tell you something back, there's a power in that that I can't quite explain. So I would say, have that experience. And then decide, is that where you want it to end? Or do you wanna share it? And if the answer's somewhere in between, how can we edit it and change it so that you feel like, "Yeah, I do wanna share, but not that part"? I would build in time so that my guests had an opportunity to say, "No, we're not gonna run with this," or, "Yes, but I want you to tweak it this way." Returning again and again. Like, I have this, um, sort of pet peeve when consent is asked for once. Like consent is an ongoing conversation. Even informed consent. Even in the best case, "This is exactly what we're gonna do, da, da, da, da, do you consent?" And people sign the dotted line and they show up. Are they asked again? You said a thing, you agreed to a thing. How about now? Is consent still something that you wanna grant? Is your opinion still what you said it was before? You have a right and a liberty to change your mind, to shift your position, and also to contradict yourself. Like you can do that. And I don't think that we know how to give ourselves and each other that permission. And this piece is somehow critical to answering the question of how we do this differently. Because it's that concretization of belief, getting stuck in a certain epistemology and a, a way of thinking that limits our ability to sort of shape-shift, transform, and create new alchemies of experiences so that we're not just regurgitating the same systems over and over again with a new name and flashy new branding. That it's actually something different. And that permission structure can be very performative. It can seem like we're very free when we're actually still reading from scripts. And it's very complex. It takes a lot more than just saying that's what we're doing. I find it difficult from day to day. And what I'm looking for in the research and in your stories and my stories is moments when we challenge the script, burn it, stomp on it, defy it. Because there's something really revealing in those moments, and there's something instructive there. And that's what I'm looking at of late. It's not about everybody just needs to follow their own internal compass. Or we all just need to come together and kumbaya. Those aren't answers to the question that we're posing. Because those frameworks are also under the influence just like we are. There's no way to separate that contamination. Like we talk about all the time. It's the water we swim in. So rather than just treading water and popping our head up from time to time in terms of awareness, how do we become equipped while we're in the water with tools that help us to suss out the fact that we're in the water at all? I think sometimes we don't even realize we're wet. I am, like, taking this metaphor way too far, but I think you get my point. Um, there's so many layers to this. And I just am really intent on not coming back on the main feed or even here regularly until I have something substantive to share with you. I've been just throwing a little bit of light and heat into the center of this Patreon circle for the last few months just to keep the embers warm enough so that you know I'm not disappearing on you. But even these solo episodes, which started, the Subject to Change series started because I needed to get comfortable being off-script and just being myself in front of the camera. That felt important to me and my own development professionally and personally, and I've done that. And it also feels like this is not where I'm at my best, doing these types of episodes. I thrive in conversation and dialogue, and I wanna get back to that. But I've gotta get clear on where we're going next, and I wanna give you something that you can really sink your teeth into. And that's what I am working on right now. So I hope you'll stay tuned. And either way, I thank you for being here, for your support of me and this work. And I really truly mean it when I say, like, whatever serves you most, that's what I hope you reach for, even if it takes you away from this space. I'm not gonna share much about the research and where it's going, but our ability to graciously exit and to allow for those types of transitions is a part of doing it differently. The path of resistance against influences that undermine our sense of autonomy and shared purpose. Solutions are tiny choices, little behaviors. I'm looking for those themes, and that's what I'm gonna share with you. And if you find yourself drifting into a place of, "I just can't get it right in this world," just know that the pressure to get it right is just evidence that the drift is working on you. That the idea that there is a prescriptive way of being individually or collectively is the very mechanism that we must counteract and work together against. We can create spaces, relationships, and a world where it is safer to be ourselves than it is to conform. That is a possibility. Not in every instance and in every moment, but we can make that more of the norm than the other way around, than the idea that we have to conform in some way in order to be safe and belong. That is what we're working against. That is what we have to challenge. And I look forward to getting in the weeds with it a little bit more as things unfold. And hopefully, I can't make any promises, um, things will evolve as I get back into my fall term of school. I can't ever know what exactly is gonna happen, so things might take a different turn, but that's where things look to be headed as of now. So thank you for being here. I appreciate you sticking around and your support of me and my work. And until next time, bye. All right, that's it for now, friends. Thanks for tuning in. I'll be over on Patreon through the end of the year. If you're interested in joining me, head over to patreon.com/thedeeperpulse. Bye for now.