The Deeper Pulse with Candice Schutter

#90 - Miss Nature LLC: Uniting Rural Communities & Demystifying Drag | Christopher Jay Hall

• Candice Schutter • Episode 90

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Happy Pride month, y’all! Please help me to welcome lifelong activist and Arizona Drag Show organizer, Christopher Jay Hall, to the pod. Earlier this week, Christopher and his father were featured in a CNN article & this episode is a timely follow-up. Listen in as Christopher shares about his upbringing in rural Arizona, and how he & his dad have repaired their relationship in recent years. Despite his dad’s early-on rejection of his queerness, Christopher came out as a teen and fell heart-first into LGBTQ+ activism. He shares how working with countless nonprofits led to the emergence of his drag persona, Miss Nature. Miss Nature LLC travels regionally, working in collaboration with rural organizers to create inclusive spaces and provide information and resources to underserved communities. Arizona Drag Show performances are generally family-friendly events, which in recent years has led to some virulent pushback from the right, more specifically in the city I currently call home, Cottonwood, Arizona. Thankfully, Miss Nature and local organizers have refused to be bullied & this year the production is offering a larger-than-ever, sold-out performance. Christopher and I dig into some of the common misconceptions about drag (especially as it relates to children), and he shares why he remains steadfast when it comes to bringing LGBTQ+ support to rural areas similar to the one he grew up in. Miss Nature carries on, fierce and full of heart, even when she has to dance on culture-war eggshells to bring her and her glorious entourage on stage. I think my bestie said it best: "Drag Queens have always and will always exist & thank the gay gods for that!!!"

Christopher Jay Hall was born in Phoenix, AZ. He has lived all over the U.S. as a child, but spent much of his time growing up in Arizona. He has been in Tucson since 2013. He is a graduate of Northern Arizona University with a Bachelor’s in Public Administration. Christopher loves bringing people together from all walks of life to help support a common cause amongst groups that normally might not come together. He does this best as his persona, Miss Nature, whom he has been bringing to stages across the country for more than a decade. Miss Nature looks forward to bringing the art of drag to new communities that have yet to experience it. She produces the annual Arizona Pride Tour, which is set to expand into New Mexico in 2026. 

To learn more about her, visit ⁦MissNatureLLC.com.⁩

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The stories and opinions shared in this episode are based on personal experience and are not intended to malign any individual, group, or organization.

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Christopher Hall:

You know, but I think it's just putting the interest of the community above self at the end of the day. Like, it's just like, this is important. In order to make progress and to be in a better place, hopefully in the future, this is just what needs to be done.

Candice Schutter:

Hey y'all. Welcome back to The Deeper Pulse. I spent this past week in the LA area attending a conference, and also the downtown No Kings protest. Needless to say, I have a lot to share about that. So I'm gonna be dropping a bonus episode over on Patreon later this week. If you're interested, you can check it out along with nearly a hundred other bonus episodes over at patreon.com/thedeeperpulse. Check it out with a seven day free trial and subscribe for as little as$5 a month gaining access to all the extras. I really urge you to support independent media creators out there, especially those you feel you can trust to get news, information, and opinions from. Alright, on to today's episode. It is really great to be back here on the pod with you. As I mentioned, I've been in LA County for the last week or so. And I ventured into Downtown Los Angeles where the supposed, quote unquote, riots were happening and found only tens of thousands of peaceful protestors and concerned citizens letting their voices be heard. So again, I'll say more about that over on Patreon. But first, I wanna flash back to November, which is just a few months after I wrapped the'cult'ure series. And at the time I was feeling pretty fried and more than ready to step out of the spotlight for a while. But as it happens, the best conversations seem to just find me. So later that month, at the end of November, I had the pleasure of sitting down with a good friend, David Gallegos Roybal, for a'cult'ure series bonus episode which I titled, Coming Out in the Pentecostal Church, A Story of Cultural Heritage, Hope, Faith In What Matters. And if you missed it, I am dropping the link in the show notes. Because it was a really touching and insightful conversation. In large part because David gives his whole heart to everything, including his husband, Mark, who is also featured on the podcast in episode 60 and 61, which are two of the most downloaded episodes to date. So I'm linking to all of that in the show notes, because it's Pride Month and as discussed in said conversations, showing up in support of queer folks is about way more than rainbow capitalism. It's about centering LGBTQ+ stories, challenging bigotry when you see it, and creating spaces of equity and inclusion. Which brings us to today's episode. So this week we're kind of sort of picking up on the last drop here on the main feed where I spoke with Llama and Julie, founders of Rural Organizing Initiative, community organizers who live and serve here in Cottonwood, Arizona and surrounding communities. If you listened to it, you already know a little bit about the work that ROI does. And you heard us speak about the Penny Peace Project and ROI's successful efforts to disarm a culture war that erupted here when a local drag show production was coming through town. This regional drag company offers family-friendly shows in many rural communities across Arizona. Nevertheless, this particular detail, the fact that children would be in attendance, sparked some immediate backlash from local conservative organizations and religious leaders in my area. And it even attracted the attention of right-wing militant groups like The Proud Boys. But despite this pushback, the event organizer, who you're gonna meet today, Christopher Jay Hall, refuse to give in to the bullies and the bible beaters. He stood his ground, and integrity, strength, and fortitude brought together a local community and sparked activism that is burning bright to this day. And this year I'm very thrilled to report that the Arizona Drag Show is returning for a sold out performance in an even bigger venue. Christopher Jay Hall is a lifelong activist who is also known by his drag persona, Miss Nature. And this past week he shared his personal story in a CNN exclusive. I'm gonna link to the feature article in the show notes, and you're definitely gonna wanna check it out. But you might wanna grab yourself a box of tissues first because if you're anything like me, you're gonna need'em. Because in it you're gonna hear from Christopher and his father Terry, who years ago, staged a intervention to save Christopher from his emerging identity. In the article, Terry bravely shares his regrets and explains why he's since become one of his son's biggest supporters. Christopher and I are releasing this episode as a follow up to this CNN feature article, and here you're gonna hear more from him. He's gonna share with us more about his childhood and how he got involved in activism after coming out as a teen. And how all of the above led him to discover Miss Nature. We take time to really dig into some misconceptions about drag. And Christopher shares more about Miss Nature LLC and her mission to co-create inclusive spaces for LGBTQ+ folks so that they can connect and thrive within their local communities and in solidarity with others who've long been marginalized. I enjoyed every second of this conversation and I think you will too. So let's get to it. Thank you so much, Christopher, for agreeing to be on The Deeper Pulse. It's so great to sit down with you again and have this chat.

Christopher Hall:

Well, thank you for having me. Truly, truly honored. So thank you.

Candice Schutter:

I've been really looking forward to this. And I'm excited for listeners to get to know you. Do you wanna introduce yourself?

Christopher Hall:

My name's Christopher Hall. I'm the director of Miss Nature, LLC. Born in Phoenix, Arizona. But currently I reside in Tucson where I've been since 2013.

Candice Schutter:

Yeah. And just for the listeners out there, I learned about your work from, actually a friend invited me to a Facebook group. And it's a Pride in the Verde Valley Facebook group, which I was thrilled to even know existed. And I wanna thank you, as somebody who doesn't even live in the Verde Valley, for holding space for those of us who are like-minded to come together. What inspired you to create that community?

Christopher Hall:

So for me, you know, in doing events in the Verde Valley and often finding that events necessarily being shared or, uh, there it was very one-sided. There are a number of groups that exist in the Verde Valley, but a lot of them seem to right-leaning. And seem to post what it is that they wanna post, they wanna silence marginalized communities. And then not only not being able to share. When you do share, you know, let's just say you were to have a conversation, somehow things get deleted. And I'm just like, you know,

Candice Schutter:

Yeah.

Christopher Hall:

There needs to be a space where things could be openly shared, uh, where hate and bigotry and, and intolerance are not welcomed. In a safe space for people to be able to share and have a sense of community.'Cause I just feel it didn't exist. And I just felt, you know, I, I know what that feels like growing up. So, you know, while I'm at an age and an ability to be able to create something, let's do that so that, you know, hopefully others don't experience similar things where I felt growing up.

Candice Schutter:

Yeah. Well, I really appreciate it, and especially when I've been living here for a few years.

Christopher Hall:

Mm-hmm.

Candice Schutter:

And have had a certain, very one-sided, as you say, experience of the culture and to find like a soft place to land is extremely nurturing. So I just really wanted to thank you right outta the gate for creating that space because I think it definitely was and is needed. So I'm grateful to you for that.

Christopher Hall:

I thank you also for being a part of that space. You know, just as much as I created the space, it's a working effort for, um, all of us to, to keep the momentum going and, and contributing and making sure those spaces are successful. So, thank you.

Candice Schutter:

I really like to know people's why. You know, like what motivates them and this, and it usually connects to our backstory. Would you be willing to go back in time and share a little bit about how you grew up and how you came to be who you are?

Christopher Hall:

Yeah. Uh, and you forgot the word trauma. For a lot of us, uh, that's, you know. But yes, I, I'm, I'm okay with sharing that.

Candice Schutter:

Yeah.

Christopher Hall:

Um, as far as my upbringing, I grew up in Florence, Arizona. That's where I pretty much spent most of my life. I had an interesting childhood'cause my dad was, um, he worked for the feds and so we did a lot of moving, growing up. And I grew up in some of the most progressive areas. And I grew up in some of the most conservative areas. So, uh, grew up in New York. I grew up in Pennsylvania. But I've also grown up in Texas and Oklahoma.

Candice Schutter:

Oh wow.

Christopher Hall:

Very, very, very diver. Uh, you know, and, and the thing is, is I was too young at that point to really know, you know, the politics of things.

Candice Schutter:

Sure.

Christopher Hall:

But I did grow up Pentecostal also.

Candice Schutter:

Okay.

Christopher Hall:

Everything was the devil. Harry Potter, which I find interesting because now, uh, with JK Rowling being anti-trans, pretty much.

Candice Schutter:

Mm-hmm.

Christopher Hall:

Now they praise it. But yet they hated her when she first came out with the witchcraft, you know? So, but my upbringing was not relatively easy. 2000, not to age myself here, but when I was 11, my parents split and divorced. So I kind of come from a, you know, broken household and what have you. So that was in itself challenging. I, it was the seventh grade in which, where I was like, okay, I'm, I know, you know, I'm different. I am attracted. It was gym class, PE. It's like, oh, okay, uh, you know? Uh.

Candice Schutter:

Yeah.

Christopher Hall:

But I pretty much suppressed that. You know, I did tell one friend, I think at that point, who's been my best friend since I was six. So we've been friends 30 years now. She's still one of my best friends today. So I did tell her. But then kinda suppressed it pretty much until I was about 16. And that came from, again, growing up Pentecostal, you know, um. And just some of my experiences in school. You know, there wasn't a lot of other gays. If there were gays, I saw how they were treated.

Candice Schutter:

Yeah.

Christopher Hall:

I did not want that for myself. Uh, sometimes, unfortunately, and I think a lot of us probably, I don't know, probably do this. I don't know. I, there's parts of me that I would engage in activity, oh, if I bully the gay kid.

Candice Schutter:

Right.

Christopher Hall:

I won't be seen as gay.

Candice Schutter:

That's right.

Christopher Hall:

You know, unfortunately, at some points in my life, I was that kid to kind of hide my own identity.

Candice Schutter:

Mm-hmm.

Christopher Hall:

And when I first did come out, my dad was pretty. And me and my dad, my dad is an amazing person. We're currently working on a article with CNN and The Whole Story is about me and my dad's relationship. And so, he's done a whole 180, like completely now. But when I first came out, he invited the church to my house and I came home.

Candice Schutter:

So like an intervention?

Christopher Hall:

Yep. I didn't want nothing to do with it. I pretty much walked out. And, and thankfully I had other family support to come get me, calm me down, you know. But yeah, it, it was hard. I've grown thick skin since I think, uh, for the most part, as a result of my upbringing. But I also realize that all our stories are different. And, you know, for me at this point is, just trying to be that person who can relate, but also be there for others and, and help others. I find people reaching out to me. Whether it be parents that have children who just came out. Whether it be children who are not being accepted. I've had a number of individuals do that. And so, hope that answered your question.

Candice Schutter:

It does. And it's a difficult question in a way because of the layers of experience and the trauma that you speak of, right? And it's interesting that you grew up in a Pentecostal environment. Did you internalize the message that there was something wrong with you or what was your relationship to that narrative?

Christopher Hall:

Not necessarily from like the church itself. Because I think I was going to church to please my parents or people, you know, in the community, uh, to have a sense of relationship.'Cause while, you know, whatever they were preaching in the service, I did genuinely, like the people outside of church. Generally we'd get along. We wouldn't talk about topics that I, I would disagree with. So I pretty much, border on the line of like, agnostic and, and atheism. And, and I feel like at that time was already there. So I don't feel it was wrong necessarily in the, like, in the eyes of the Lord or what have you.

Candice Schutter:

Right.

Christopher Hall:

But did feel, because of the messages I was receiving from others, I felt it was wrong based off of the pressure being put upon me.

Candice Schutter:

Uhhuh. Yeah. So the, your sense of belonging was threatened, not so much your sense of belief.

Christopher Hall:

Correct.

Candice Schutter:

In some dogma. That makes, that makes sense. Yeah. So were you always interested in expressive arts, performance, things like that? I wanna talk about how Miss Nature came to be.

Christopher Hall:

No, you know, I was never in drama. I was never in any, like, you know. I did cheer. But that was only because the people that came to me thought it would be fun to have a male flyer, but I'm scared of heights, so that didn't work. Uh, and, you know, they needed a male to do like the co-ed competition, so I did that. But, um, no, not really. So for me, the way that it worked is my involvement in drag came later to my involvement with like the community. So as you know, I grew up in Florence. And so we had a gay straight alliance at the time. They were kind of the big topic at that time of high school, 2006, 2007. And it had only been around for one year. And the president who had started it was leaving and if nobody stepped up, it would be dismantled. And I said, you know, I, I can't see that happen. I had just come out. I had just gone through what I was going through. I said, I have to do something. So I became the president of the group and we held many events. I found the activism within myself during that time. We did walkouts. We had dances and what have you with in the community and raising money for the organization. But we did a lot of stuff there. And that's when I started working with, between like 2007 and 2008, uh, I was pretty involved. But I was observing at that time. I wasn't, you know, I was trying to still find myself, where is my role? You know, how can I contribute? So I, I kind of worked with other organizations, uh, Marriage Equality USA, which I don't think they, I don't even know if they exist anymore, at least not in Arizona. Equality Arizona, which I do know is still active. Uh, Transgender Day of Remembrance. These were all things that I was kind of participating at that point. Then in 2009, I started my own nonprofits, that, no longer exist unfortunately.'Cause I left it, it wa, I was the executive director from 2009 to 2012. But unfortunately the people that were on the board with me didn't necessarily carry it out. It was a nonprofit based in Pinal County, Casa Grande area. And we worked with already existing LGBTQ organizations to provide services and resources to underserved areas. So we represented Pinal county, Pima, and Maricopa, and Gila counties. And during that time, we had four Pride events in Casa Grande. Often bringing, it was kind of nice'cause we're pretty equal distance between Phoenix and Tucson.

Candice Schutter:

Mm-hmm.

Christopher Hall:

So we would be able to bring both communities together in a centralized location, but also in a rural area that needed it. We also did youth summits in Maricopa. And then we also, of course did annual award ceremonies honoring local community leaders who helped us. It was through that in 2012 that I, I did drag. It was supposed to be a one-time thing. Um, it was supposed to be like, okay, hey, I'm the executive director of this group. Let's raise some money. That was also the year I left the organization and was like, okay, I'm, you know, I'm getting ready to leave to Tucson, and starting a new chapter. I recognize that drag has raised so much money for various causes, and I want to be a part of a, what I feel is a legacy. Which is part of my question later as to what I feel drag is. But I don't wanna do all the work, you know, I can just go, show up. I don't have to plan the event. I don't have to take down the event. I don't have to do all the headaches and the, the bickering between people. I don't have to deal with any of that. And unfortunately, but fortunately, now I'm doing what it is I do. I, I continue to do drag. But the activism within. And like the, the putting together and bringing community and doing events is still a part of who I am. I enjoy that. So now here I am doing the work, but now also having to perform after work. Just more work.

Candice Schutter:

Yeah.

Christopher Hall:

Uh, so, that's kind of how that started. I started in Phoenix. I did a show. It was at Apollos in Phoenix. It no longer exists. It's a bar that's since closed, sadly. And yeah.

Candice Schutter:

Well, sometimes the work chooses us, right? You have like this idea of, of how it's gonna go and it usually goes a bit differently.

Christopher Hall:

That's exactly what happened.

Candice Schutter:

Yeah. Um, what did you love about doing drag itself? You said it was gonna be a one-time thing, but you continued to do it. I mean, I know you said because it helps raise awareness and the fundraising and all that stuff. But what else is there for you. And maybe this connects to the question around what drag means to you.

Christopher Hall:

You know, it's interesting.'Cause I know a lot of people do it for different reasons. Right. You

Candice Schutter:

Of course.

Christopher Hall:

Have people who use it for methods of escape, uh, you know. There's lots of reasons. For me it is primarily the bringing people together, doing events. I often, between the years of 2013 and 2019, often did events outside of the LGBTQ community and working with organizations and raising funds to bridge communities together. That's what I liked. So we raised money. We worked with, uh, Wings for Women for Domestic Violence. Uh, women who, you know, experiencing domestic violence and, and their children. Marshall's Home for Men we've worked with, which is homeless veterans. We've done work with the American Cancer Society, raising money for breast cancer. I actually, for a short period was the diversity ambassador with them. We raised money for Casa de Los Ninos at risk youth. Southern Arizona Network for Down syndrome, uh, for kids with Down Syndrome. Uh, we worked with Autism Society of Southern Arizona, Humane Society of Southern Arizona, on multiple occasions. The NAACP. So we did a lot of work and that was. That's what I like. Hey, you're a minority or you know, you're a group of individuals that have your own struggles. We're a group of people with our struggles. And yet we were able to host events bringing people from all different areas of life together with, you know, various reasons. And it was interesting'cause you would have, you know, I remember the NAACP and specifically. I remember going to, they were one of the few groups where I had to like present to the board. Some people were on board. And some people were like, well, what would, you know, the national say about this? And they're like, well actually there's a national Pride NAACP that exists, supposedly. I didn't know that. Uh, and so, it was just kind of beautiful when you look into the audience.'Cause you see people that are okay, you know, I'm here for the NAACP. And you have people that are like, oh, I'm here for like LGBT. I'm sure there's people that were both. But you also had those individuals that were there for one, but yet still there collectively. And I just found beauty in that.

Candice Schutter:

Yeah.

Christopher Hall:

And that's just what I love. You know, I, I enjoy that.

Candice Schutter:

That is beautiful. It really is an, and it's. I mean, it sounds like your expression of drag is inextricably connected to activism.

Christopher Hall:

Yeah, I would think so. You know, and I think that's why, you know, sometimes I find it hard to relate to other drag. And in, in no way, shape or form, like everybody's story is valid in, in why they do what they do. But, uh, I often just wish that there were more people I like that I could share or connect with with that.'Cause I often find myself not being able to, and sometimes feel isolated still. Even though it's really interesting.'Cause you know, I'm always like, oh, we should be doing more. We need to be, you know, more and more. And once we do more, and this is my own, you know, problem that I have, you know, I have high expectations for self. And therefore, you know, that comes with putting on other. And, and so that's my own internal stuff that I have to deal with regularly. But I'm just like, okay, now that we've gotten here.'Cause I think that's why we're in the position we're currently in politically, is that got content. You know, we got complacent. We felt that we got what we needed, we're done. And it's like, it's obviously not, you know.

Candice Schutter:

Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I think it's also important to underscore, we'll, we'll obviously return to the activism piece'cause it's part of what brought us together in this conversation. But I appreciate you sharing that transparently, because it underscores something that is critical that needs to come through in any conversation like this, which is that especially within a marginalized community, the culture's not a monolith. Like everyone's doing drag for their own reasons. And everyone's has their own motivations and everyone has a different vision for what they want. And do they want it to be a communal thing? Is it a personal thing? Is it? Like there's a million different answers as many people as there are.

Christopher Hall:

Mm-hmm.

Candice Schutter:

There's that many reasons for doing what we do. There's room for all of it. And even within an activist movement, we can feel lonely.

Christopher Hall:

Mm-hmm.

Candice Schutter:

When we don't find people with whom we have as much overlap as we would like. And I just, I appreciate that you share that.'Cause I think it's, it's something that we all need to be reminded of. Because we think, oh, I'm gonna go to this group and find belonging and it's gonna fulfill and check all the boxes. And it's not usually how it works.

Christopher Hall:

Not at all. No. Yeah, no. And yeah,'cause you go and you're thinking, then you realize that there's all this stuff going on behind the scenes and that, that kind of separates us. And

Candice Schutter:

That's right.

Christopher Hall:

You know, and then you sometimes come out feeling defeated. And you're like, oh, do I wanna go back? You know?

Candice Schutter:

Mm-hmm.

Christopher Hall:

But yet, if you don't, you're like, I'm gonna be just as low. Like, you start to question what's important to me? What's not important to me?

Candice Schutter:

Yeah.

Christopher Hall:

Uh, and that's where that ever changing journey comes. You're constantly learning and. Um, yeah.

Candice Schutter:

And being in community is to experience friction of sorts. You know, I think that's something I'm really learning to come to terms with the part of me. Well I, you know, I had cultic experiences. So there was a period of time where I just couldn't do groups. But even in like reengaging in community and realizing, because we're not all the same, we're not gonna share the same beliefs and ideas all the time. And that's another thing I love about the work that you do of building bridges between different groups that need a spotlight shined on them and need a sense of community and connection. And creating these spaces in which we overlap in our humanity, even though there's so much about us that's so different. And there's so many things we're not gonna necessarily quote unquote agree on. There might be a little friction there. But we can sort of get underneath that and try to connect to each other's humanity and make room for that diversity. I mean, isn't that really what DEI is supposed to be all about, is making room for all of that? It's just, it can be easier said than done when we're yearning for validation though, right? It makes it, it makes it complicated. And all of that to say, I was fascinated when I was looking at your website and reading about your organization. And one of the things you seemed to emphasize was rural connections, rural communities. Do you wanna talk a little bit about that, why that is?

Christopher Hall:

Yeah. So I grew up in Florence. Florence was equal distance to Tucson and Phoenix. And for me, fortunately, I had the means to go to these areas and seek resources and seek community that not everybody has for different reasons. Whether, you know, accessibility is a huge issue.

Candice Schutter:

Yeah.

Christopher Hall:

And so, my biggest thing is, you know, if everybody leaves. And we see this, you know, with each election and, and what have you, is that people leave for larger communities. Which, again, people need to do what they. There's no fault, you know?

Candice Schutter:

Sure.

Christopher Hall:

In people that choose to, to move. I just had a friend that could no longer live in a conservative area. And she was such a big influence. And she recently moved to Oregon. I get it. Like,

Candice Schutter:

Yeah.

Christopher Hall:

It's, it, you know, for her kids and in wanting them to grow up in an environment, I, I, I get it.

Candice Schutter:

Yeah.

Christopher Hall:

But there's gay people in every community.

Candice Schutter:

Yeah.

Christopher Hall:

Across the nation. And people should be able to live in their communities and be active members of their communities without having to leave. And you know, yes, they may be gay, but it's that, you know, that that should be secondary. Third, you know, fourth, you know.

Candice Schutter:

Mm-hmm.

Christopher Hall:

They're this, they're this. And they happen to be gay, you know.

Candice Schutter:

Right.

Christopher Hall:

And I think too often that, and I get it, people, you know, activism isn't for everybody.

Candice Schutter:

Yeah.

Christopher Hall:

I have to remind myself of that oftentimes because, like I said, I just always expect more. And sometimes I think that comes across not always the best. And I get it. So for me, going to rural communities, I, it's just the hope of reaching those people that don't have accessibility. Hey, you know, maybe for that split second, it gives them. It, it, because that's what it did for me. Like, it was because one incident had a pretty profound impact on my life. When Equality Arizona, they came in, I was attending college at the time, and they came to the campus and showed, Free Held, which is a movie, an independent film about a lesbian couple. One of the women was a police chief for 25 years, and they were probably not gonna give her her pension because of her sexuality and, and the struggle. And I was like, that movie and that just experience. That one time, like changed my life.

Candice Schutter:

Yeah.

Christopher Hall:

Like it was crazy. And so to me it's, it's, it's hoping. My hope is going to communities. They start their own thing, they develop something. And then I move on and say, okay, what community can we do that in next?

Candice Schutter:

Nice.

Christopher Hall:

You know. And so that's kind of where I'm at. I've seen pretty great things come out of some of the tour stops in which we do. We, uh, we did Payson one year and they now have a Payson Pride organization.

Candice Schutter:

Awesome.

Christopher Hall:

As a result of our events. So, we did Havasu, we continued to do Havasu. They have a, a group similar to the Verde Proud group that was created by a friend of mine. And that group almost doubled in size as a result of the Pride Tour. And so it's, it's like those things, I'm like, okay, something's happening. Something's good.

Candice Schutter:

Yeah.

Christopher Hall:

We're making progress here.

Candice Schutter:

Yeah.

Christopher Hall:

And that's what motivates me and makes me want to continue. There's, you know, definitely the struggles and the other side of things that make me sometimes question like, am I doing the right thing? But, I just have to remind myself of those moments to, to keep pushing. Because yeah, there's definitely, sometimes I'm like, is it, you know, there's just a lot of other, the negative, the nasty side of things.

Candice Schutter:

Yeah.

Christopher Hall:

Whether it's the people that are in disagreement and, you know, and the turmoil that then exists. You know, like for Cottonwood, Verde Valley, you know, all of this. It's the area that we have the most issues in, in any other area that we go to in the state. I don't know why it is.

Candice Schutter:

Hmm,

Christopher Hall:

I don't know what it is. But in every other area, yeah, we have little minor things. But nothing like Yavapai County. And so sometimes I sit there and I think, am I doing good? Am I causing the turmoil?

Candice Schutter:

Hmm.

Christopher Hall:

Am I, you know, so there, there comes like those feelings sometimes, you know?

Candice Schutter:

Right. It's like, it's kind of internalizing the gaslighting of the pushback, right. They're saying you're the problem. And at a certain point, and we've all been there.

Christopher Hall:

Mm-hmm.

Candice Schutter:

Where there's somebody or some community or whatever saying that we're the problem and we start to second guess ourselves. Like maybe I'm the problem. But I, I really wonder with Yavapai County. And I would love for you to share just a little bit about, from your perspective, what the journey's been like. You know, doing the tour in general in these rural communities in particular and then coming through Yavapai County. And there, there was a whole lot of pushback for a while. And by the way, congratulations. The show sold out in Jerome.

Christopher Hall:

Yes, it did. It did. And it ideally could have more if, if it held necessarily the capacity.

Candice Schutter:

Wow.

Christopher Hall:

I think it's good that we're, you know, a month away. And it's sold out, so thank you.

Candice Schutter:

It's incredible. I'm so excited about it. And it was a challenge there for a while. You weren't even sure it was gonna happen'cause the venue. Well I don't wanna say that. It sounded to me like Christopher was sure it was gonna happen.

Christopher Hall:

Correct.

Candice Schutter:

That's right. Which is part of what activism is, right. Is like, making hope a verb and turning it into an actuality for the people who really need it. Do you wanna give people an overview of kind of the kind of pushback you've been facing?

Christopher Hall:

Yeah. So I mean, the pushback started. So our first time coming to Yavapai County was in'22. We first did a show in Prescott. And when we were there, there was people running their ATVs with their American flags. And there was some people like just trying to, what we felt, causing fear.

Candice Schutter:

Yeah.

Christopher Hall:

In the people attending. And I think that's a constant tactic that is used. But we luckily had worked with the Hilton, that's where we had the events. And the staff there was amazing and they helped work with local law enforcement. We had like a liaison, I don't remember his name at the top of my head, but wrote me. They even wrote me after the event asking how they did in terms of the event. And how that went for them. I, and then'23 was the big year when we came to Cottonwood, when, you know, we had some pretty large organizations that showed up that were in opposition of the events. And, you know, I believe, and we're trying to figure out the numbers, this came up during the CNN question. But I believe there was 80 officers that ended up surrounding the building. And from five different departments.

Candice Schutter:

Wow.

Christopher Hall:

And again, it was, uh, scare tactics. It was people walking like in militia-like form, like with guns that like look like. They're like, not even like a, a regular gun. I mean, it was like almost like Army. army. Yeah, weapon. Like, and it, they were like marching in, like. I was like, what is this? And so, there was the countless attacks on city government and they were constantly trying to bully them. In which unfortunately, I think while some of them were, you know, uh, supportive, fear, you know. I remember going to one town council meeting, I went to multiple. But one in particular where there was, and she's no longer on the board. And I could probably see why, uh, there's been a lot of overturn. But somebody pretty much went to the stand and said something about her house and, and not paying her mortgage,'cause next year it's not gonna be needed. And it just seemed very threat, you know.

Candice Schutter:

She was implying that this person would be disappeared or worse. Yeah.

Christopher Hall:

Right. So there's a lot of things that we've seen in that area, which is, like I said, okay? Are we doing good, are we not? You know, but in working with organizations such as ROI and others that are in the area, which I am thankful, I believe, and I wanna quote, I believe they didn't exist yet. And then just recently existed.

Candice Schutter:

Yeah. 2023 was when ROI came into being. And, and I think in response to this, if, if everyone remembers the conversation.

Christopher Hall:

Yeah, I want to say, again, going back to that.

Candice Schutter:

That's right.

Christopher Hall:

Some of the positives, you know.

Candice Schutter:

Yeah.

Christopher Hall:

that

Candice Schutter:

Yep.

Christopher Hall:

I look back and I'm like, oh hey. It's an amazing organization. I just worked with them recently at the Jerome, we brought in the Penny Peace Project and collaboratively, you know, did that together. And we're hoping to raise some funds during this upcoming event so we can do something for the community.'Cause another thing that I want to do in every area that we go is leave some money behind to be able to do something else. So what we're wanting to do in honor of Penny is to raise money and to do like a picnic in the park or something at a later date before the next show. You know, we want to see more things happen, you know, plant seeds. And so. But, I mean, like I said, we've seen some of the stuff everywhere, but nothing, nothing like, like Yavapai County.

Candice Schutter:

Well it makes me wonder if there's a particular church here that is mobilizing people specifically. Okay.

Christopher Hall:

I can tell you one. The River Bible Church in 2023 was heavily, heavily involved. They even did a petition at one point to try to, and it was people that didn't even live in Verde Valley. They were getting signatures from across the nation. But they were showing up. They were the ones showing up in droves, about, I would say probably about 200 people. They had to move where the, the town halls were happening to the largest building that would, would hold the number of people that was showing up. And even then, people would be outside'cause they couldn't get in'cause it was overpack. You know, the last couple of years we just haven't seen them. There is other individuals in the community that do try. I don't wanna give them any credit or incite them to be able to, oh, well hey, we're an issue and, you know, we succeeded.

Candice Schutter:

Yeah.

Christopher Hall:

You know, I don't want that.'Cause now we see a handful.

Candice Schutter:

Well, and this is the power of collective community activism, right? It's like you stuck it out. And folks have heard the conversation about the Penny Peace Project and sort of strategically how to respond to situations like this. It's like standing up to any bully, right? It's about standing your ground, not taking the antagonistic bait, but standing your ground and standing for what you stand for. And like you didn't give up. You and, and all the people who partnered with you and all the performers who were willing to come, even though it was sketchy and scary, I'm sure at times. I mean, it's just a real testament to what we need to be doing as a country right now. What y'all have done and what you are doing. And where do you find your, your courage, your resolve, your tenacity?

Christopher Hall:

It's a good question. I, I think, you know, like I said, in just seeing the impact that it has had. I think for me, that's kind of all I need, you know? At the end of the day, I, I don't fear much. What's gonna happen happens. But I, you know, not that I would ever want anything to happen, but.

Candice Schutter:

Sure.

Christopher Hall:

Um, just, you know, I think it just comes with my own experiences. And not being afraid, uh, to be that, that voice. I don't know where it comes from. You know, I understand why a lot of people don't want to be that person. Um, you know, but I think it's just the putting the interest of the community above self at the end of the day. Like, it's just like, this is important. In order to make progress and to be in a better place, hopefully in the future, this is just what needs to be done.

Candice Schutter:

Very well said. So I wanna touch upon, we talk about like culture war and the soundbites that kind of catch fire and distract everyone from the real issue, which is like humans having rights and the ability to express themselves however the hell they want. And one of the things that became a flashpoint on the right that I think could use us just chatting about a little bit in terms of a reality check is this idea that like, drag and children don't mix.

Christopher Hall:

Yeah.

Candice Schutter:

And you've done a lot of work with children. And, and I wanna know what you have to say about all that.

Christopher Hall:

Yeah, so, it actually brings me to the, the misconceptions of drag. And so, one of which is drag is sexualized. Inherently, it's sexual in nature. And to me, this is a way to give back as, as we've said. It's a way to also make a living. I mean, you know, I do, this is a job. It is how I pay bills. And there's nothing sexual about it for me. And I think the issue is, you know, what people need to realize is the people that are saying that it's sexual, it's because those people are sexualizing it.

Candice Schutter:

That's absolutely right. Say that again. So true.

Christopher Hall:

The issue is that, you know, it is not us. The people that see us as being sexual are the ones who are sexualizing us. And therefore, it's something internal that they, you know, we all have our own journey. And it's a journey they need to go through as to why they're sexualizing us. Because honestly, there's no reason, you know.

Candice Schutter:

Yeah.

Christopher Hall:

I'm just, at the end of the day, trying to make a difference and trying to make coin. Like I said, it's my living at the same time.

Candice Schutter:

Yeah.

Christopher Hall:

You had asked something and it brought me to that idea.

Candice Schutter:

About the children.

Christopher Hall:

About the children and working with the children. So, yeah, prior to doing this, I used to work where I used to work on the, on, on the private side outside of drag, I've worked with kids a lot, in terms of my professional career as well, um, working with kids with disabilities and what have you, and, and helping them get services. I find it interesting that, this one individual that follows us, in Jerome, brought a child to the town council meeting. I've seen him a couple of times. I've seen them provide him notes as to what to read. We get into this grooming aspect of, you know, that drag is groomers.

Candice Schutter:

Yeah, talk about a projection.

Christopher Hall:

Yeah. And so I, I find it interesting. If you can have a child in church talking about issues that are anti. If you can, if they can understand or you can try to teach them how it's wrong. You're telling me on the opposite, that they do understand. They're at an age of understanding and making decisions.

Candice Schutter:

Yeah.

Christopher Hall:

That's another thing that I think is a common misconception is that we groom, when I feel the opposite. And feel that it's the opposite side that grooms.

Candice Schutter:

That's right.

Christopher Hall:

And the only thing that they're trying to do at the end of the day is, hopefully by the time they're 18, if we can keep this group out, we can groom them to be who we want. And so, that's definitely the issue. I think the misconception is who's the groomer?

Candice Schutter:

Mm-hmm.

Christopher Hall:

I, I honestly, truly believe, you know, looking at my experience with the church, the church often is grooming children, not drag.

Candice Schutter:

I a hundred percent agree. Because what are they grooming them into? They're grooming them into gender essentialism, conformity and

Christopher Hall:

Mm-hmm.

Candice Schutter:

Drag and queerness and what the LGBTQ+ community stands for is all about freedom of expression. And you don't have to check one box. And you can be who you want. And it, it really is like the ultimate projection. To say, that y'all or, or any of us who support queer expression are grooming children.

Christopher Hall:

Mm-hmm.

Candice Schutter:

I'm glad that we're naming the irony therein.

Christopher Hall:

Yep. Yeah, no. I, I, yeah. It's one thing that bothers me more than anything, you know. I actually, when I was a youth, I was working with a organization called, HERO. Unfortunately, they don't exist anymore. Amazing organization, Human and Equal Rights Organizers is what it stood for. And they also were a catalyst to my activism, because they did what was called like Gorilla Gay Bar. They would go out to a gay bar that was traditionally straight and then have a, it would be enfluxed with a bunch of gay people. It would be a gay bar for one night. Uh, you know, and they would do like, just great activism. And so one of the things we did while we were with them when Exodus existed, the Exodus, Pray the Gay Away movement. There was a bunch of children that were sent by their parents to a church. And I went undercover as a youth that was supposedly sent by my parents. We had two of the adults with the Human and Equal Rights Organizers who were my parents that day. And I went in and I gave resources to kids.

Candice Schutter:

Wow.

Christopher Hall:

While they were listening to this horrific message. And so, yeah, it's just, it's just, that's just what I love to do. I just want, I don't want people to feel what I've had to feel, you know.

Candice Schutter:

Yeah.

Christopher Hall:

At the end of the day. I don't want them to go through the same pain. Yeah. I kind of touch on this during shows and, you know, oftentimes we'll ask how many parents brought their kids today, you know. And then thank them.'Cause, you know, and then have a heart to heart and just give them a hug and say, I wish I had this, you know.

Candice Schutter:

Yeah. Yeah.

Christopher Hall:

It's a very powerful moment, I think.'Cause, you know. I'm trying not to tear up as I think about it. You know, it's, it's,

Candice Schutter:

Yeah.

Christopher Hall:

It's, it's why I do it, you know? I think a lot of times people also have this understanding that, why do you want kids? That it's, I don't want kids that not, 95% of our shows are adults.

Candice Schutter:

Yeah.

Christopher Hall:

There's a small percentage of kids who do go. But they, for whatever reason, get the focus. You know, they're trying to, it's like I'm hoarding in people like, come on in children like, please. Children cannot attend without an adult to the show. People sign contracts. Their music will be cut if at any point their performance became not appropriate. Um, you know, a lot of times people who have actually attended, you know, the people that are complaining are people not attending shows. To

Candice Schutter:

Yes.

Christopher Hall:

Be able to speak on what it is that the show is.

Candice Schutter:

Mm-hmm.

Christopher Hall:

People that do attend compare more so to Disney Princess than we get compared to, you know. And that's another misconception. There are adult rated shows. And there are a lot of things that people see online that, you know. But I have always been, having worked in these environments, I've always seen, like, Hey, we need to be cautious about what we do. Before we got to the area where we're at now, the climate we're in. Before I was seen as very, like, why is Chris so strict? Why is Chris,

Candice Schutter:

Right.

Christopher Hall:

You know, he's stifling my art, you know. So when we talk about misconceptions externally, I think there's some mis, you know, uh. I've seen it, and I was trying to hopefully, at least locally prevent what happened globally is beyond my

Candice Schutter:

Yeah.

Christopher Hall:

Ability to do anything. But locally speaking, you know, I was trying to not necessarily inhibit people from doing their art. I remember one entertainer wanted to do like Naked Cowboy during the event. And it was like, at that point it was during the pandemic. And I'm like, we don't know who's gonna be watching this content online, you know.

Candice Schutter:

Yeah.

Christopher Hall:

You know, I don't want that to be the image that we're feeding and you know. But I was the one that got, know, attack for like, you're not allowing my art to, you know, you're censoring, you know. That's, I, you

Candice Schutter:

Yeah.

Christopher Hall:

Ultimately, you're censoring me and it's like, it's hard'cause we should be careful with what we post online. And again, it goes back to that idea, like, okay, the person who's seeing it the way they are through their lens, you know. And, and, and so that's a fence I'm still on. I'm trying to find my own journey of where I land on that, because you know, I'm not trying to say that it's our fault as to why we're in the situation we're in. But I do feel that, at the same time, that I've made mistakes, you know, in terms of what I, we all do. You know, there's things that if I could go back and say, Hey, now knowing what I know, would I have? For instance, in Havasu and this came up a lot in the Verde Valley. They were saying that I did the spread eagle in Havasu. And I was like, If I could jump up and spread my legs like a cheerleader does, a 16-year-old, you know, a child that's, I would. I'm an old man that can't do that, so I got on my back and spread. But you again, sexualized it.

Candice Schutter:

That's right. That's right.

Christopher Hall:

It's the only way that I could do that move. Otherwise it wasn't happening.

Candice Schutter:

Uhhuh.

Christopher Hall:

But again, like, it, it's little things like we just need to be cautious of how things could be perceived.'Cause there are unfortunately people that, and we see it a lot, people that get tickets with the intent.

Candice Schutter:

Of capturing something.

Christopher Hall:

Something that.

Candice Schutter:

Yeah.

Christopher Hall:

You know, and making an issue that didn't need to be an issue. So that's something we deal with a lot. We have to be very cautious. That's why I think we've done a lot of security parameters. Um,

Candice Schutter:

Yeah.

Christopher Hall:

Nobody can get in without having their ID checked. We take pictures of everybody. We write down their names as it appears on their id. In case there's issues, we can report it to the police.

Candice Schutter:

Nice.

Christopher Hall:

And I think that really, when you can identify and I know who you are.

Candice Schutter:

Yeah.

Christopher Hall:

And your name, you know.

Candice Schutter:

Yeah.

Christopher Hall:

It, it makes people act a little bit better, you

Candice Schutter:

yeah. And it makes the everyone else feel safer knowing that you've taken those precautions. Yeah, for sure. Well, you know, I think with any form of activism, this is where it kind of circles all the way back to the beginning where we were talking about everybody doing drag for different purposes. And when you're in the lane of activism, I think it's in some ways wise to be conscientious of perception.

Christopher Hall:

Mm-hmm.

Candice Schutter:

And, you know, in order for activism to be effective. Just like there are days when I read the news and I wanna burn shit down, right? But I'm not going to actively feed that dragon, because I know that's not actually gonna help anything. It's gonna make everything worse, right? So you do have to make these concessions and, and difficult decisions. And that performer's not wrong for wanting to do, you know, Naked Cowboy. It's just in this context, maybe let's not do that because of our larger aim, right? So I think those questions are difficult to navigate. And again, I just wanna celebrate the lane in which you're doing this in and say, from where I sit, I appreciate the fact that you're being conscientious about these things. Because I think you're gonna get greater traction. And we can see that, like the impact that you've had. And I know it must be really challenging sometimes. But that's, that's the beauty of working with people who are free, is there's friction.

Christopher Hall:

Yeah.

Candice Schutter:

I was in a cult, so I know what it's like to hang out with people where there's no friction. Because it's designed to be that way. It's, there's parameters around the way we express and think and behave. And, and it is more quote unquote peaceful, but what kind of peace is that really?

Christopher Hall:

Mm-hmm.

Candice Schutter:

And if we want the world we say we want, then it's gonna be messy and it's gonna be complicated. And I think you're, you're navigating all of that beautifully, so.

Christopher Hall:

Well, I appreciate that. I,

Candice Schutter:

Yeah.

Christopher Hall:

It's, it's, it's a struggle, but it's something I have to remind myself of daily, so.

Candice Schutter:

I'm curious, as somebody who grew up in the kind of environment you grew up in and is doing the work you do now and has worked with so many children. And this idea that like, children should be able to go to drag shows or shouldn't they go be able to go to drag shows, really takes the agency away from the children themselves who should be able to choose which groups they wanna belong to and where, where they wanna connect and who they wanna be. And what would you say to those children?

Christopher Hall:

Oh, that's a good question. You know,'cause it's really hard.'Cause the reality unfortunately, of the situation is the parental hold. You know.

Candice Schutter:

For sure.

Christopher Hall:

Unless they get emancipation, you know.

Candice Schutter:

Yeah.

Christopher Hall:

Whatever, you know. It's that whole Trevor project, It Gets Better kind of campaign type. But, you know, ultimately, who your parents want you to be is, it's then becomes their dream, their reality, what they see for you, their vision.

Candice Schutter:

Yeah.

Christopher Hall:

And it may be different from yours, you know, more than likely it is.

Candice Schutter:

Mm-hmm.

Christopher Hall:

You know, there's no way that of us really, unless we were to be a spitting image of somebody, right. That we're not going to be different. All of our experiences are different. And so, you know, you just have to realize that, give time. Try to get them connected to services like P Flag, you know, to maybe, hopefully have their parent, you know. There's not a real answer for everyone because I think we need to take time to listen to individuals where they're at. What is their barrier in the moment? Like, what is, what are the obstacles they're facing and meet them where they're at.

Candice Schutter:

Yeah.

Christopher Hall:

I think that's, uh, I think we just all need to do that a little bit more. We have these solutions that are supposed to be catchalls. But it's, it's bigger than that. You can't really fix an issue that you don't understand. You first have to get to the root before you can even have a solution. So, I think it just really depends on that child. And I, for me, what I do strive to do is try to understand that child's circumstance before being able to give any kind of opinion.'Cause a blanketed opinion, while it sounds great, you know, in words it is not often helpful.

Candice Schutter:

Yeah, for sure.

Christopher Hall:

It needs to have a little bit more meaning than that.

Candice Schutter:

Definitely. Yeah. Yeah.

Christopher Hall:

Going back to the HERO, they had a really good initiative that they were marching or walking one mile for every year that Arizona did not grant equal representation to LGBTQ+ individuals. And so in 2011, another thing that kind of really inspired me, I did March, we walked 99 miles. It was not consecutive. It was over a span of 10 days.

Candice Schutter:

Okay.

Christopher Hall:

In August, though, we do this in August in the state of Arizona to show the, that's, you know, this is how important it is. We wanted to do it in the hottest month. But, uh, I remember an individual who, they walked with us when we were, we had done Parker. We did, uh, so what would happen is you, we pretty much did it in like 12 mile increments, 10 to 12 miles. Then we would drive a van to another area. Then we did like Yuma. We did Bisbee, Clifton, like really small, small cities. Sierra Vista, which is a little bit larger. But in Sierra Vista Tombstone. This individual joined us and they marched. Then I hadn't seen them for many years. Fast forward seven years later in about, I think it was 2018, I ended up performing at Bisbee Pride. And that child was there with a flag that we all signed when we marched with them in 2011.

Candice Schutter:

Wow.

Christopher Hall:

And they say they carry that flag every day.

Candice Schutter:

Oh.

Christopher Hall:

And so for me, that was just like, again, this is why, you know, this is exactly why. It's those little moments that, you know. I hope that someday the people that are on the fence, they take some time to like just hear those types of stories.

Candice Schutter:

Yeah.

Christopher Hall:

And the difference that it makes, uh, and hopefully, you know, have a change of heart. Um.

Candice Schutter:

Yeah.

Christopher Hall:

And then, in terms of the tour, like you said, we're excited for, this is our largest year by far. So that's good. I think we did six this year. But between those six shows, we're approaching 1300 attendees over those six shows. And, in 2026, we are looking to branch into New Mexico. And

Candice Schutter:

Nice. Well, I appreciate that you're creating spaces. Especially when we're talking about indoctrination and where's the grooming really coming from? And what's really being chosen for these children? And where do they have their agency, all that stuff. It's like, if we just open more doors for them to walk in, rooms for them to explore and potentially walk out of or stay in. I mean, isn't that really what it's about? It's, it's not about having the perfect answer to the questions, and you're creating these spaces in communities where they're so hard to find. You know, that's one of the things that I'm just like so fired up about your work, is that I moved here to this little town of Cottonwood from Portland, Oregon.

Christopher Hall:

Yeah. The opposite of what my friend did.

Candice Schutter:

That's right. That's right. That's right. And so I, I get it. I get why your friend, you know, some days I wanna go back, um. But where there's so many resources for somebody who's searching. And being here for a number of years. Now I'm, I'm a queer woman, but I'm in a heteronormative relationship. So I pass in the culture. I have the ability to be invisible around it if I want to. And that's a privilege in and of itself. But having this sense of, there's nowhere for me to plug into that here. And for you to bring it, which it's already here, it's just a matter of everyone's.

Christopher Hall:

Exactly.

Candice Schutter:

It's diffused. It's like, it's not all together. And that you're going to these places and creating opportunities for people to come together and realize, oh shit, there's a lot of people in this room. I'm not alone. Is just such an amazing gift, especially right now. And it also takes more courage than ever.

Christopher Hall:

Yeah.

Candice Schutter:

And I just admire you so much.

Christopher Hall:

Well, thank you. I appreciate that. And I thank you for this. You have a platform you're using. You know, seems like you're doing similar, creating a space. And so I thank you for the work you're doing and

Candice Schutter:

Of course.

Christopher Hall:

to following your journey, you know.

Candice Schutter:

And I can't wait to come to the drag show. I'm so excited.

Christopher Hall:

I'm excited. Yes. It's really weird'cause like I'm, you know, I'm like, yeah, I'm excited. But I'm just like, work first I have to

Candice Schutter:

Work, work, work.

Christopher Hall:

It'll get to an exciting point once I'm able to like breathe. But.

Candice Schutter:

I totally understand. I understand that too. I understand that too. And in a similar way, I'm so excited for this episode to roll out and I have to do all the production work on it first. So we'll be excited together about these projects when they come to fruition. How does that sound?

Christopher Hall:

Sounds perfect. Sounds great.

Candice Schutter:

Thank you so much, Christopher.

Christopher Hall:

Thank you. You have a great day.

Candice Schutter:

You too. Thanks to Christopher, Miss Nature, and all drag queens out there doing beautiful work. Just yesterday I was texting with my bestie about this episode, how it's about to drop. And I shared the link to the CNN feature about Christopher and his dad, Terry. And she read it and the text she sent back to me was just too perfect not to share. Her reply?"Why do people hate beauty, joy, and fun? Drag queens have always and will always exist. And thank the gay gods for that!" Here, here. All right. I'll see you back here next week or over on Patreon for some bonus content. Again, that's patreon.com/thedeeperpulse if you wanna learn how to support this work and listen to this week's bonus release where I talk about what it was like to gather with thousands of Californians to protest Trump and his racist policies toward immigrant communities. It's a lot right now, and it feels like there's no end to this administration's destructive aims. But that's exactly why we have to keep speaking out and showing up. So I'll see you back here soon when I'll be dropping another Pride month release, and a solo episode where I'll be sharing more personal stories and taking a critical look at gender essentialism. Bye for now.

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Candice Schutter

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